Posts by Juan Viejo2

18

The "Paradise" as promised by the Watchtower

by Saethydd in

i was thinking today about the descriptions of the future "paradise" presented by the watchtower, and i was struck by something about it.

most of us are aware that the watchtower promotes an interpretation of the apocalypse that would result in the immediate execution of 99.9% of the population with no hope for resurrection.

additionally, we have been told about the large group of people that are supposed to side with satan at the end of the thousand year reign of christ.

Juan Viejo2

This was a question that I posed to a couple of my "no matter what you say, and you may be right, I'll be a JW for life" relatives:

OK. So you survive Armageddon. What do you do for the first 50 years? Clean up the mess of Armageddon and bury or burn all the bodies of the wicked that are laying around and rotting. Sounds like fun to me.

Then what do you do? Build new cities and roads? Build yourself a mansion? Go play with the lions and tigers every day?

If you get your sexual prowess back, do you make new babies every year? Are they automatically righteous? What happens if there are no new babies and some of your friends are caught committing a sin by the angels and are toasted immediately on site? Will Jehovah stick another Tree of Knowledge somewhere in earth where you can choose to eat or not and take your chances? So what do you do after you've lived a thousand years? Ten thousand years? Are they going to have really great TV cable channels that just show people behaving perfectly and without any conflict in their lives? No bad guys to deal with? Will there be Jesus-Lands all over the world where you can go and ride a roller coaster knowing in advance that there is no danger involved - and if you are in an accident that your injuries will be immediately healed without blood transfusions? Will we have cars to drive and planes to fly? Or will we have to walk everywhere?

How will Jehovah communicate? Will we hear sounds of a booming voice from heaven? If not, how do we know that our "overseers" won't ask us to do something that will get us destroyed?

So then what? At 10,000 years? At 50,000 years? 100 thousand years? A gazillion years? What if no one survives who knows how to build bridges or airplanes or cruise ships? Will the weather be perfect every day, no matter where we live? Will Iceland become a garden of Eden? Will California and Japan be able to forget about earthquakes? Will sharks stop eating people who swim in the ocean? Will we really be able to pet lions and tigers? Will all the ecology change so that we have no bugs to eat our food or sting us? Then what happens to the balance of nature?

So many questions and not a single Watchtower or Awake! with the answers....

JV

15

From Jehovah's Witness to Hollywood actress

by RR in

jw
friends

from jehovah's witness to hollywood actressby tim townsendst.

louis post-dispatch09/11/2006.

juliana dever in "mangler reborn".

Juan Viejo2

Accidentally stumbled across this story while researching something else. The above mentioned Ms. Dever has done quite well for herself since this thread was posted.

See IMDB bio. She is now a regular on the relatively popular USA TV show, "Castle."

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1299015/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t15

Thumbs up for a young woman who escaped from the borg and made something of her life.

Hooda thunk it?

JV

9

Trump vows to repeal limits on churches

by StarTrekAngel in

i know the jws would not necessarily take advantage of this (or may be they would) but certainly, they will spin it off somehow.. https://www.yahoo.com/news/religious-looking-trump-protections-081209487--politics.html.

Juan Viejo2

They forget that letting churches politic like individuals can work both ways. Yes, there are a lot of super conservatives, Republican-leaning protestant churches that have managed to quietly promote certain candidates and political parties, but there are even more that would promote more liberal fair-play for all positions.

If they want to see black and predominately liberal churches hit the streets and claim that God supports a certain candidate - good luck. Think of the Jewish synagogues and Islamic temples that are very political, but must take it outside their temples and can not use church funds to promote a party or a candidate - suddenly released to be as active as they wish.

The not so secret that the facts are that churches have surreptitiously financed and promoted certain favored candidates for a long time. There is a reason that some whole areas go for a certain candidate only because he claims to be a Christian (and his opponent is likely one too), but in real life breaks every commandment and then some so hallowed by the ruling area church.

Money, religion, and politics have been very comfortable bedfellows for a long time. The difference now is that they are not even trying to hide the fact that clergymen break the law (both Democratic and Republican of all churches) every single chance they get..

Organizations like the American Civil Liberties Union and Americans for Separation of Church and State can never take a breath anymore. Everywhere from local city councils to state houses and Congress . are constantly falling back and ignoring their oaths of office, promoting (mostly Protestant) Christian ministers ahead of all other beliefs to lead prayers and other functions in purely political arenas.

JV

14

THE AGEING OF STILL-ACTIVE WITNESSES

by steve2 in

several years ago i started a thread on this forum in which i asserted i had not seen witnesses door-knocking in my village for at least two or so years.

years before that - in pre-trolley times - in going about my business (or pleasure), i'd catch sight of them on the streets as they shuffled in their groups from door-to-door: sometimes there'd be contingents of witnesses, including young couples, parents and their kids and middle-aged and older ones.

in other words, a good cross-section of ages and stages in life.. in fact, i can remember times when witnesses were so visible in numbers when going out in their car groups, you literally couldn't escape them.. then, in more recent years, i've seen very, very little...if not anything (and i count myself sensitive to noting whether jws are out and about).

Juan Viejo2

I've written about this before, but in my location (a very safe middle-class neighborhood) I used to see them about once every 3-5 months - you know in the spring and the fall. We would also get invitations to the Memorial and to conventions being held at the state fairgrounds located in our city. I haven't seen any at all at any time of the year in over 5 years. My home office looks out onto the street, so I can see everyone in the neighborhood walking their dogs, jogging, etc. But no JWs or their literature at my house for half a decade.

Something is definitely changing. I could drive by the largest Kingdom Hall in this area (I believe there are at least three in this town) and see cars parked in the lot and JWs milling around the main door. Recently I drove by the KH on both a Saturday and a Sunday in late afternoon and there were only just a couple of cars.

We are not the largest city in the state, but it would be in the top 3 or 4 for sure. We have an active downtown and quite a bit of foot traffic except in the winter. I've made a point of driving around the major intersections of the three major business areas in town - and have never seen a JW street preaching or manning a literature cart.

The only time I have actually encountered a literature cart was in another city in an adjacent state. There was a Saturday afternoon public sponsored "faire" of tents that were manned by various churches, activist groups, and sign carrying protestors. Two JWs were manning the cart (kind of a tall narrow thing with two verticle rows of Watchtowers and Awake! magazines. Zero enthusiasm even when I walked up and engaged them in conversation. Their attitude was more like "take whatever you want - you can even take duplicates for your friends - but we're just here to make sure no one steals the cart..."

Times have changed, that's for sure. I just wonder how they are managing to come up with hours to report - what are they actually doing?

JV

40

The popularity fad of home-schooling!

by stuckinarut2 in

i know this has been discussed over the years on this forum, but i just had to post this again!.

it seems that the popular fad amongst the "spiritual" ones in the local circuits is to home school their children instead of sending them to school.. now to clarify, we are in a very nice area of semi rural australia .

one with very community minded, and strong family values.

Juan Viejo2

Home schooling for JW kids varies depending on how well educated their parents are and also how socialized they are. My siblings and I just went to regular public schools when we were JWs back in the late 1950s and early 1960s. There was not the pressure at that time to homeschool little JWs. In fact (at least in my family), doing well in school was assume and unpleasant discipline could be expected if we came home with anything under a B grade. We were not restricted in any way as far as school friends, but if we wanted to go to someone's home to study or play, Mom would have to check them out first. We were not allowed to go to homes where people smoked or parents drank liquor during the day.

Every one of the JW kids who did not go to public school seemed odd. They were odd even when I'd go to their home to play or go out in "service." Only two of my JW peers did especially well (one went off to college and became an English professor and writer of some note - never claimed his JW heritage). The other also went to college and became a businessman and then a politician - never referring to his JW upbringing when running for election. He died rather young. Both fellows came from very strong JW families. Both went to public schools.

The very few that I knew at the time who were being home-schooled were odd, shy, and really not very active in JW activities like door-to-door service or Theocratic Ministry School. When invited to their house to "play"---- well, I'll just say that they weren't a lot of fun. Wanna play catch with the baseball or football? (Nah.) Wanna watch cartoons on the TV. (Nah, not allowed to watch TV.) Wanna go bowling? (Nah. Don't know how - mom won't let me.)

The sad thing was that none of them that were still JWs when I knew them ever went to college. The JW girls all married JW boys or moved away after high school graduation. Sad, because in those days almost anyone with good grades could get some kind of scholarship. And if not, college was very cheap. In my state, a year at Junior College was $50 tuition and about $25 for books. If your grades were quite high and you had taken a few college prep courses, you could go to a state university for less than $300 per semester.

But the JWs had it right about one thing: Most of the JW kids I knew who went to college eventually moved away and left the JW cult far behind.

JV

70

Pseudo history in Watchtower today 😂

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

gorby went to the kh for family reasons today.. and landed right away middle in a pseudo history watchtower article.

just that aspect of the jw belief he is so sensative about.. so 1918 and 1919 are changed with one mark of a pencil.

the argument of change was in the past the argument of the doctrine.

Juan Viejo2

Paul Grundy should have a good time dealing with all these changes on JWFacts. I have no idea how he keeps up. It seems that nearly every couple of months there is another little tweak - just enough to be noticeable for some of us. Because many JWs are busy trying to keep from falling asleep during KH meetings, they will probably not even notice the changes and just go with the flow. Then in a year or two, they'll all be asking each other: "When did that teaching change?"

JV

13

HOUSE, M.D., Jehovah's Witnesses, and '75

by compound complex in

season 7, episode 18: "the dig".

house picks up "thirteen" -- dr. remy hadley -- upon her release from prison.

she asks him to take her to a certain location in order to take care of a personal matter.

Juan Viejo2

Yep - that's a keeper. This clip needs wider distribution just to make it clear that the whole blood thing is not a game. It's not always a 50/50 situation.

Death is a long lasting event. There's no going back. If you are thinking that you are going to wake up in a paradise park or on a planet on the other side of the Sun, I'm afraid that you will be very disappointed. That's the bad news.

The good news is that you won't know that you've been snookered.

JV

144

2.16.2017 NJ Star-Ledger Ad: "Were you sexually abused by the Jehovahs Witnesses?"

by breakfast of champions in

my wife found this 1/4 page ad on page 2 of yesterday's nj star-ledger, probably the biggest newspaper in nj.

pretty telling.. .

Juan Viejo2

While exchanging emails with Barb Anderson, I just realized that my ex-wife (and proud mother of my three daughters) worked for the Luxemberg law firm as an office manager back in the 1970s. She started with them when they were on Robertson Blvd in West Los Angeles (Beverly Hills was just across the street). When they moved to a new high rise in Century City, she moved with them and worked for them her whole professional life in various clerical and supervisory positions. She got on very well with the owners and all of the attorneys and loved her career there.

The west coast branch of the firm is still in that building and apparently on the same floor. They were still building out Century City at the time (1969-1980). She retired from the firm about 20 years ago.

What I got from the little she shared with me from time to time (employees of legal firms learn to not discuss their jobs away from the office) was that their reputation was impeccable and that their success rate was well above average.

Based on what little I know about them, these guys can get the job done. They would not take on this burden if they thought that they would lose or that their reputation would be damaged in any way. Again, knowing what I know about them and their over 50 years in business (at least in the Los Angeles/Beverly Hills area), having this firm on our side is definitely an advantage for abused kids and ripped off JW retirees.

Pray for their success. Yes, even those of us who are non-believers - pray that their reputation will not be harmed or wasted on the pursuit of Watchtower associated child abusers and the WT leaders who protect them.

JV

35

How long did people like Methuselah really live?

by dubstepped in

i was working today and my brain was working in circles like it often does and i started wondering about what i was always told about people like methuselah in bible times, and their incredibly claims of longevity.

i've tried researching things but have a hard time getting through all of the bible thumpers to some real evidence, and figured that some here may be more informed or have done the research previously.

so, did people really live longer way back when?

Juan Viejo2

I asked this very question to a somewhat notable Catholic theologian that I met right after I left the Witnesses. It was after a christening at a large Catholic Church in central California. He was in the area to give a series of lectures on Catholic/Christian/Jewish history vs. secular history.

After we introduced ourselves, he asked me if I was a Catholic. My response was, "Well, my mother was a Catholic most of her life, but then she converted to Jehovah's Witness and the rest of the immediate family followed. I left for good when I was about 22, but I married a Catholic girl."

"Oh, so you are a Catholic by marriage?" he asked. I replied that I never became a Catholic; my wife converted from being a Catholic to a Jehovah's Witness. We're divorced now. She eventually went back to being a Catholic."

He asked me if I was still a "believer," and if not, why not. I told him that I was agnostic about god, but felt the Bible had no real credibility. When he asked me for an example, I mentioned Genesis. "The earth, sun, moon, animals, plants, humans, etc. all created in 6 24-hour days? A flood that topped Mt. Everest in less than 40 days, but drained away in just a few months? And where did all that water go?"

"Well," he replied, "time periods in the Bible can not be taken literally. Early manuscripts indicated that every early civilization only had one time piece - the sun. It came up and it went down. The next day it came up. The concept of weeks, months and years is really a much later development. So early writings speak of seasons based on the stages of the moon, so they may have considered each full transition of the moon as their 'year.' Calendars are a relatively late development and did not really appear until numbers and writing became universal. Early humans simply did not think in terms of numbers and letters - they thought in terms of day and night, warm and cold, etc."

He admitted that much of Christian belief was based on "faith, not facts." "You'll go crazy if you try to convert every word in any Bible into absolute fact. Most of it was not even written until about 500 years before Jesus."

I had a lot of respect for what he had to say. He had that little twinkle in his eye that told me that his belief was tied more to his job than his actual beliefs, but he likely truly believed in God and Jesus. I guessed that he was a reasonable man who knew more than he was willing to divulge. But those few minutes made an impression on me that still makes up a part of my own philosphy. But the point was that he apparently did not believe that a Biblical "year" was the same as a modern "year."

So if you take some of those old patriarchs and change their life spans from years into months, then someone who lived to be 950 years old would have actually been around 80 - a far more reasonable number of years.

JV

36

Walking away will get you D/Fed

by Drifting Away in

jw
friends

someone just told my wife, that those who are just leaving organization or not going anymore will be dfed, has anyone read that or heard of that?

i have seen nothing of that, and according to jackson at royal commission, we are free to go as we please...

Juan Viejo2

I've had several friends who simply moved away from their home congregation. When they left they told no one or indicated that they would send a forwarding address as soon as they were permanently set in at their new town or state.

Usually appearing to stay active right up until your move works best. If you've already broadcast your intention to leave by only attending meetings occasionally and not otherwise participating, everyone will figure that you are bailing and will then come after you.

The smoothest transition I ever saw was back in the mid-1980s when an elder and his family decided they wanted out. He had an opportunity to get a better job in a city some distance from his old home. As he and his family left their home congregation for the last time, they told everyone that they would send their address to one of the other elders and let everyone know how they were doing. When asked where they were moving, they replied along the lines of "northern Washington, but we don't have a permanent address yet." In those days no one had cell phones, so telephone numbers did not follow them. (You can do the same thing by changing carriers at the same time you move and only inform those who you trust with your new numbers.)

No one will give much thought about you for the first few months. But then when no request for your publisher's records arrives, the elders might think something is up - but most are lazy and will just let it ride for a while.

Do not contact anyone you left behind. If you do send a note, use email or send a card with no return address and maybe a message like, "We're still looking for a permanent place up here in northern Washington."

It worked for them. Just fade into the distance. They will forget all about you unless you leave relatives behind. Don't leave relatives behind...

JV